Language involving irrational number is not a CFLHow to prove that a language is not regular?Why is $L= n geq 1 $ not regular language?Prove that the language of unary not-prime numbers satisfies the Pumping LemmaAlgorithm to test whether a language is context-freeUsing the Pumping Lemma to show that the language $a^n b a^n$ is not regularA non-regular language satisfying the pumping lemmaProving non-regularity of $u u^R v$?Prove using pumping free lemma for context-free languagesProve that $L_1 = , 0^m 1^k 2^n ,vert, lvert m - n rvert = k ,$ is not regular using Pumping lemmaPumping lemma for context-free languages - Am I doing it right?

Alignment of six matrices

How to I force windows to use a specific version of SQLCMD?

Would this string work as string?

How can I, as DM, avoid the Conga Line of Death occurring when implementing some form of flanking rule?

If the only attacker is removed from combat, is a creature still counted as having attacked this turn?

When and why was runway 07/25 at Kai Tak removed?

Do I have to know the General Relativity theory to understand the concept of inertial frame?

Air travel with refrigerated insulin

Are Captain Marvel's powers affected by Thanos breaking the Tesseract and claiming the stone?

Storage of electrolytic capacitors - how long?

Can I cause damage to electrical appliances by unplugging them when they are turned on?

Has the laser at Magurele, Romania reached a tenth of the Sun's power?

Would a primitive species be able to learn English from reading books alone?

Can I say "fingers" when referring to toes?

Why does a 97 / 92 key piano exist by Bösendorfer?

Given this phrasing in the lease, when should I pay my rent?

If A is dense in Q, then it must be dense in R.

Why is participating in the European Parliamentary elections used as a threat?

Sound waves in different octaves

Giving feedback to someone without sounding prejudiced

How to make a list of partial sums using forEach

What should be the ideal length of sentences in a blog post for ease of reading?

How can ruler support inventing of useful things?

Ways of geometrical multiplication



Language involving irrational number is not a CFL


How to prove that a language is not regular?Why is $L= 0^n 1^n $ not regular language?Prove that the language of unary not-prime numbers satisfies the Pumping LemmaAlgorithm to test whether a language is context-freeUsing the Pumping Lemma to show that the language $a^n b a^n$ is not regularA non-regular language satisfying the pumping lemmaProving non-regularity of $u u^R v$?Prove using pumping free lemma for context-free languagesProve that $L_1 = , 0^m 1^k 2^n ,vert, lvert m - n rvert = k ,$ is not regular using Pumping lemmaPumping lemma for context-free languages - Am I doing it right?













8












$begingroup$


I am working through a hard exercise in a textbook, and I just can't figure out how to proceed. Here is the problem. Suppose we have the language $L = a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, igeq 0, jgeq 1$ where $gamma$ is some irrational number. How would I prove that $L$ is not a context-free language?



In the case when $gamma$ is rational, it's pretty easy to construct a grammar that accepts the language. But because $gamma$ is irrational, I don't really know what to do. It doesn't look like any of the pumping lemmas would work here. Maybe Parikh's theorem would work here, since it would intuitively seem like this language doesn't have an accompanying semilinear Parikh image.



This exercise is from "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit, Exercise 25 of Chapter 4.



I would really appreciate any help, or nudges in the right direction. Thank you!










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Have you tried applying Parikh’s theorem?
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Why not show that it’s not semilinear directly? Use the definition.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Just in time for my homework! Thanks. CS 462/662 Formal Languages and Parsing Winter 2019, Problem Set 9, exercise 3. Due Friday, March 22 2019.
    $endgroup$
    – Hendrik Jan
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @ChenyiShiwen, so the pumping lemma does work.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @HendrikJan I'm selfstudying from the textbook "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit. It is Exercise 25 of Chapter 4 fyi. Would it be possible to hide this post until the assignment is due?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    1 hour ago















8












$begingroup$


I am working through a hard exercise in a textbook, and I just can't figure out how to proceed. Here is the problem. Suppose we have the language $L = a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, igeq 0, jgeq 1$ where $gamma$ is some irrational number. How would I prove that $L$ is not a context-free language?



In the case when $gamma$ is rational, it's pretty easy to construct a grammar that accepts the language. But because $gamma$ is irrational, I don't really know what to do. It doesn't look like any of the pumping lemmas would work here. Maybe Parikh's theorem would work here, since it would intuitively seem like this language doesn't have an accompanying semilinear Parikh image.



This exercise is from "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit, Exercise 25 of Chapter 4.



I would really appreciate any help, or nudges in the right direction. Thank you!










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Have you tried applying Parikh’s theorem?
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Why not show that it’s not semilinear directly? Use the definition.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Just in time for my homework! Thanks. CS 462/662 Formal Languages and Parsing Winter 2019, Problem Set 9, exercise 3. Due Friday, March 22 2019.
    $endgroup$
    – Hendrik Jan
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @ChenyiShiwen, so the pumping lemma does work.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @HendrikJan I'm selfstudying from the textbook "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit. It is Exercise 25 of Chapter 4 fyi. Would it be possible to hide this post until the assignment is due?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    1 hour ago













8












8








8





$begingroup$


I am working through a hard exercise in a textbook, and I just can't figure out how to proceed. Here is the problem. Suppose we have the language $L = a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, igeq 0, jgeq 1$ where $gamma$ is some irrational number. How would I prove that $L$ is not a context-free language?



In the case when $gamma$ is rational, it's pretty easy to construct a grammar that accepts the language. But because $gamma$ is irrational, I don't really know what to do. It doesn't look like any of the pumping lemmas would work here. Maybe Parikh's theorem would work here, since it would intuitively seem like this language doesn't have an accompanying semilinear Parikh image.



This exercise is from "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit, Exercise 25 of Chapter 4.



I would really appreciate any help, or nudges in the right direction. Thank you!










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




I am working through a hard exercise in a textbook, and I just can't figure out how to proceed. Here is the problem. Suppose we have the language $L = a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, igeq 0, jgeq 1$ where $gamma$ is some irrational number. How would I prove that $L$ is not a context-free language?



In the case when $gamma$ is rational, it's pretty easy to construct a grammar that accepts the language. But because $gamma$ is irrational, I don't really know what to do. It doesn't look like any of the pumping lemmas would work here. Maybe Parikh's theorem would work here, since it would intuitively seem like this language doesn't have an accompanying semilinear Parikh image.



This exercise is from "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit, Exercise 25 of Chapter 4.



I would really appreciate any help, or nudges in the right direction. Thank you!







formal-languages automata context-free






share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 39 mins ago









D.W.

102k12127291




102k12127291






New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 8 hours ago









ChenyiShiwenChenyiShiwen

434




434




New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











  • $begingroup$
    Have you tried applying Parikh’s theorem?
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Why not show that it’s not semilinear directly? Use the definition.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Just in time for my homework! Thanks. CS 462/662 Formal Languages and Parsing Winter 2019, Problem Set 9, exercise 3. Due Friday, March 22 2019.
    $endgroup$
    – Hendrik Jan
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @ChenyiShiwen, so the pumping lemma does work.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @HendrikJan I'm selfstudying from the textbook "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit. It is Exercise 25 of Chapter 4 fyi. Would it be possible to hide this post until the assignment is due?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    1 hour ago
















  • $begingroup$
    Have you tried applying Parikh’s theorem?
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Why not show that it’s not semilinear directly? Use the definition.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Just in time for my homework! Thanks. CS 462/662 Formal Languages and Parsing Winter 2019, Problem Set 9, exercise 3. Due Friday, March 22 2019.
    $endgroup$
    – Hendrik Jan
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @ChenyiShiwen, so the pumping lemma does work.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @HendrikJan I'm selfstudying from the textbook "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit. It is Exercise 25 of Chapter 4 fyi. Would it be possible to hide this post until the assignment is due?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    1 hour ago















$begingroup$
Have you tried applying Parikh’s theorem?
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
8 hours ago





$begingroup$
Have you tried applying Parikh’s theorem?
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
8 hours ago













$begingroup$
Why not show that it’s not semilinear directly? Use the definition.
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
Why not show that it’s not semilinear directly? Use the definition.
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
7 hours ago




3




3




$begingroup$
Just in time for my homework! Thanks. CS 462/662 Formal Languages and Parsing Winter 2019, Problem Set 9, exercise 3. Due Friday, March 22 2019.
$endgroup$
– Hendrik Jan
4 hours ago





$begingroup$
Just in time for my homework! Thanks. CS 462/662 Formal Languages and Parsing Winter 2019, Problem Set 9, exercise 3. Due Friday, March 22 2019.
$endgroup$
– Hendrik Jan
4 hours ago













$begingroup$
@ChenyiShiwen, so the pumping lemma does work.
$endgroup$
– Apass.Jack
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
@ChenyiShiwen, so the pumping lemma does work.
$endgroup$
– Apass.Jack
4 hours ago












$begingroup$
@HendrikJan I'm selfstudying from the textbook "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit. It is Exercise 25 of Chapter 4 fyi. Would it be possible to hide this post until the assignment is due?
$endgroup$
– ChenyiShiwen
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
@HendrikJan I'm selfstudying from the textbook "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit. It is Exercise 25 of Chapter 4 fyi. Would it be possible to hide this post until the assignment is due?
$endgroup$
– ChenyiShiwen
1 hour ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















6












$begingroup$

According to Parikh's theorem, if $L$ were context-free then the set $M = (a,b) : a leq gamma b $ would be semilinear, that is, it would be the union of finitely many sets of the form $S = u_0 + mathbbN u_1 + cdots + mathbbN u_ell$, for some $u_i = (a_i,b_i)$.



Obviously $u_0 in M$, and moreover $u_i in M$ for each $i > 0$, since otherwise $u_0 + N u_i notin M$ for large enough $N$. Therefore $g(S) := max(a_0/b_0,ldots,a_ell/b_ell) < gamma$ (since $g(S)$ is rational). This means that every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$.



Now suppose that $M$ is the union of $S^(1),ldots,S^(m)$, and define $g = max(g(S^(1)),ldots,g(S^(m))) < gamma$. The foregoing shows that every $(a,b)$ in the union satisfies $a/b leq g < gamma$, and we obtain a contradiction, since $sup a/b : (a,b) in M = gamma$.




When $gamma$ is rational, the proof fails, and indeed $M$ is semilinear:
$$
(a,b) : a leq tfracst b = bigcup_a=0^s-1 (a,lceil tfracts a rceil) + mathbbN (s,t) + mathbbN (0,1).
$$

Indeed, by construction, any pair $(a,b)$ in the right-hand side satisfies $a leq tfracst b$ (since $s = tfracst t$). Conversely, suppose that $a leq fracst b$. While $a geq s$ and $b geq t$, subtract $(s,t)$ from $(a,b)$. Eventually $a < s$ (since $b < t$ implies $a leq fracstb < s$). Since $a leq fracst b$, necessarily $b geq lceil tfracts a rceil$. Hence we can subtract $(0,1)$ from $(a,b)$ until we reach $(a,lceil tfracts a rceil)$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    4 hours ago


















4












$begingroup$

Every variable except $gamma$ in this answer stands for a positive integer. It is well-known that given an irrational $gamma>0$, there is a sequence of rational numbers $dfraca_1b_1ltdfraca_2b_2ltdfraca_3b_3ltcdots ltgamma$ such that $dfraca_ib_i$ is nearer to $gamma$ than any other rational number smaller than $gamma$ whose denominator is less than $b_i$.




It turns out that the pumping lemma does work!



For the sake of contradiction, let $p$ be the pumping length of $L$ as a context-free language. Let $s=a^a_pb^b_p$, a word that is $L$ but "barely". Note that $|s|>b_pge p$. Consider
$s=uvwxy$, where $|vx|> 1$ and $s_n=uv^nwx^nyin L$ for all $nge0$.



Let $t_a$ and $t_b$ be the number of $a$s and $b$s in $vx$ respectively.



  • If $t_b=0$ or $dfract_at_bgtgamma$, for $n$ large enough, the ratio of the number of $a$s to that of $b$s in $s_n$ will be larger than $gamma$, i.e., $s_nnotin L$.

  • Otherwise, $dfract_at_bltgamma$. Since $t_b<b_p$, $dfract_at_blt dfraca_pb_p$. Hence,
    $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>dfraca_pb_p$
    Since $b_p-t_b<b_p$, $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>gamma,$
    which says that $s_0notin L$.

The above contradiction shows that $L$ cannot be context-free.




Here are two related easier exercises.



Exercise 1. Show that $L_gamma=a^lfloor i gammarfloor: iinBbb N$ is not context-free where $gamma$ is an irrational number.



Exercise 2. Show that $L_gamma=a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, i ge0, jge 0$ is context-free where $gamma$ is a rational number.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    3 hours ago











Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "419"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);






ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fcs.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f105836%2flanguage-involving-irrational-number-is-not-a-cfl%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









6












$begingroup$

According to Parikh's theorem, if $L$ were context-free then the set $M = (a,b) : a leq gamma b $ would be semilinear, that is, it would be the union of finitely many sets of the form $S = u_0 + mathbbN u_1 + cdots + mathbbN u_ell$, for some $u_i = (a_i,b_i)$.



Obviously $u_0 in M$, and moreover $u_i in M$ for each $i > 0$, since otherwise $u_0 + N u_i notin M$ for large enough $N$. Therefore $g(S) := max(a_0/b_0,ldots,a_ell/b_ell) < gamma$ (since $g(S)$ is rational). This means that every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$.



Now suppose that $M$ is the union of $S^(1),ldots,S^(m)$, and define $g = max(g(S^(1)),ldots,g(S^(m))) < gamma$. The foregoing shows that every $(a,b)$ in the union satisfies $a/b leq g < gamma$, and we obtain a contradiction, since $sup a/b : (a,b) in M = gamma$.




When $gamma$ is rational, the proof fails, and indeed $M$ is semilinear:
$$
(a,b) : a leq tfracst b = bigcup_a=0^s-1 (a,lceil tfracts a rceil) + mathbbN (s,t) + mathbbN (0,1).
$$

Indeed, by construction, any pair $(a,b)$ in the right-hand side satisfies $a leq tfracst b$ (since $s = tfracst t$). Conversely, suppose that $a leq fracst b$. While $a geq s$ and $b geq t$, subtract $(s,t)$ from $(a,b)$. Eventually $a < s$ (since $b < t$ implies $a leq fracstb < s$). Since $a leq fracst b$, necessarily $b geq lceil tfracts a rceil$. Hence we can subtract $(0,1)$ from $(a,b)$ until we reach $(a,lceil tfracts a rceil)$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    4 hours ago















6












$begingroup$

According to Parikh's theorem, if $L$ were context-free then the set $M = (a,b) : a leq gamma b $ would be semilinear, that is, it would be the union of finitely many sets of the form $S = u_0 + mathbbN u_1 + cdots + mathbbN u_ell$, for some $u_i = (a_i,b_i)$.



Obviously $u_0 in M$, and moreover $u_i in M$ for each $i > 0$, since otherwise $u_0 + N u_i notin M$ for large enough $N$. Therefore $g(S) := max(a_0/b_0,ldots,a_ell/b_ell) < gamma$ (since $g(S)$ is rational). This means that every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$.



Now suppose that $M$ is the union of $S^(1),ldots,S^(m)$, and define $g = max(g(S^(1)),ldots,g(S^(m))) < gamma$. The foregoing shows that every $(a,b)$ in the union satisfies $a/b leq g < gamma$, and we obtain a contradiction, since $sup a/b : (a,b) in M = gamma$.




When $gamma$ is rational, the proof fails, and indeed $M$ is semilinear:
$$
(a,b) : a leq tfracst b = bigcup_a=0^s-1 (a,lceil tfracts a rceil) + mathbbN (s,t) + mathbbN (0,1).
$$

Indeed, by construction, any pair $(a,b)$ in the right-hand side satisfies $a leq tfracst b$ (since $s = tfracst t$). Conversely, suppose that $a leq fracst b$. While $a geq s$ and $b geq t$, subtract $(s,t)$ from $(a,b)$. Eventually $a < s$ (since $b < t$ implies $a leq fracstb < s$). Since $a leq fracst b$, necessarily $b geq lceil tfracts a rceil$. Hence we can subtract $(0,1)$ from $(a,b)$ until we reach $(a,lceil tfracts a rceil)$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    4 hours ago













6












6








6





$begingroup$

According to Parikh's theorem, if $L$ were context-free then the set $M = (a,b) : a leq gamma b $ would be semilinear, that is, it would be the union of finitely many sets of the form $S = u_0 + mathbbN u_1 + cdots + mathbbN u_ell$, for some $u_i = (a_i,b_i)$.



Obviously $u_0 in M$, and moreover $u_i in M$ for each $i > 0$, since otherwise $u_0 + N u_i notin M$ for large enough $N$. Therefore $g(S) := max(a_0/b_0,ldots,a_ell/b_ell) < gamma$ (since $g(S)$ is rational). This means that every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$.



Now suppose that $M$ is the union of $S^(1),ldots,S^(m)$, and define $g = max(g(S^(1)),ldots,g(S^(m))) < gamma$. The foregoing shows that every $(a,b)$ in the union satisfies $a/b leq g < gamma$, and we obtain a contradiction, since $sup a/b : (a,b) in M = gamma$.




When $gamma$ is rational, the proof fails, and indeed $M$ is semilinear:
$$
(a,b) : a leq tfracst b = bigcup_a=0^s-1 (a,lceil tfracts a rceil) + mathbbN (s,t) + mathbbN (0,1).
$$

Indeed, by construction, any pair $(a,b)$ in the right-hand side satisfies $a leq tfracst b$ (since $s = tfracst t$). Conversely, suppose that $a leq fracst b$. While $a geq s$ and $b geq t$, subtract $(s,t)$ from $(a,b)$. Eventually $a < s$ (since $b < t$ implies $a leq fracstb < s$). Since $a leq fracst b$, necessarily $b geq lceil tfracts a rceil$. Hence we can subtract $(0,1)$ from $(a,b)$ until we reach $(a,lceil tfracts a rceil)$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



According to Parikh's theorem, if $L$ were context-free then the set $M = (a,b) : a leq gamma b $ would be semilinear, that is, it would be the union of finitely many sets of the form $S = u_0 + mathbbN u_1 + cdots + mathbbN u_ell$, for some $u_i = (a_i,b_i)$.



Obviously $u_0 in M$, and moreover $u_i in M$ for each $i > 0$, since otherwise $u_0 + N u_i notin M$ for large enough $N$. Therefore $g(S) := max(a_0/b_0,ldots,a_ell/b_ell) < gamma$ (since $g(S)$ is rational). This means that every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$.



Now suppose that $M$ is the union of $S^(1),ldots,S^(m)$, and define $g = max(g(S^(1)),ldots,g(S^(m))) < gamma$. The foregoing shows that every $(a,b)$ in the union satisfies $a/b leq g < gamma$, and we obtain a contradiction, since $sup a/b : (a,b) in M = gamma$.




When $gamma$ is rational, the proof fails, and indeed $M$ is semilinear:
$$
(a,b) : a leq tfracst b = bigcup_a=0^s-1 (a,lceil tfracts a rceil) + mathbbN (s,t) + mathbbN (0,1).
$$

Indeed, by construction, any pair $(a,b)$ in the right-hand side satisfies $a leq tfracst b$ (since $s = tfracst t$). Conversely, suppose that $a leq fracst b$. While $a geq s$ and $b geq t$, subtract $(s,t)$ from $(a,b)$. Eventually $a < s$ (since $b < t$ implies $a leq fracstb < s$). Since $a leq fracst b$, necessarily $b geq lceil tfracts a rceil$. Hence we can subtract $(0,1)$ from $(a,b)$ until we reach $(a,lceil tfracts a rceil)$.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered 5 hours ago









Yuval FilmusYuval Filmus

195k14183347




195k14183347











  • $begingroup$
    Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    4 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    4 hours ago















$begingroup$
Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
$endgroup$
– ChenyiShiwen
4 hours ago





$begingroup$
Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
$endgroup$
– ChenyiShiwen
4 hours ago













$begingroup$
No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
4 hours ago











4












$begingroup$

Every variable except $gamma$ in this answer stands for a positive integer. It is well-known that given an irrational $gamma>0$, there is a sequence of rational numbers $dfraca_1b_1ltdfraca_2b_2ltdfraca_3b_3ltcdots ltgamma$ such that $dfraca_ib_i$ is nearer to $gamma$ than any other rational number smaller than $gamma$ whose denominator is less than $b_i$.




It turns out that the pumping lemma does work!



For the sake of contradiction, let $p$ be the pumping length of $L$ as a context-free language. Let $s=a^a_pb^b_p$, a word that is $L$ but "barely". Note that $|s|>b_pge p$. Consider
$s=uvwxy$, where $|vx|> 1$ and $s_n=uv^nwx^nyin L$ for all $nge0$.



Let $t_a$ and $t_b$ be the number of $a$s and $b$s in $vx$ respectively.



  • If $t_b=0$ or $dfract_at_bgtgamma$, for $n$ large enough, the ratio of the number of $a$s to that of $b$s in $s_n$ will be larger than $gamma$, i.e., $s_nnotin L$.

  • Otherwise, $dfract_at_bltgamma$. Since $t_b<b_p$, $dfract_at_blt dfraca_pb_p$. Hence,
    $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>dfraca_pb_p$
    Since $b_p-t_b<b_p$, $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>gamma,$
    which says that $s_0notin L$.

The above contradiction shows that $L$ cannot be context-free.




Here are two related easier exercises.



Exercise 1. Show that $L_gamma=a^lfloor i gammarfloor: iinBbb N$ is not context-free where $gamma$ is an irrational number.



Exercise 2. Show that $L_gamma=a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, i ge0, jge 0$ is context-free where $gamma$ is a rational number.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    3 hours ago
















4












$begingroup$

Every variable except $gamma$ in this answer stands for a positive integer. It is well-known that given an irrational $gamma>0$, there is a sequence of rational numbers $dfraca_1b_1ltdfraca_2b_2ltdfraca_3b_3ltcdots ltgamma$ such that $dfraca_ib_i$ is nearer to $gamma$ than any other rational number smaller than $gamma$ whose denominator is less than $b_i$.




It turns out that the pumping lemma does work!



For the sake of contradiction, let $p$ be the pumping length of $L$ as a context-free language. Let $s=a^a_pb^b_p$, a word that is $L$ but "barely". Note that $|s|>b_pge p$. Consider
$s=uvwxy$, where $|vx|> 1$ and $s_n=uv^nwx^nyin L$ for all $nge0$.



Let $t_a$ and $t_b$ be the number of $a$s and $b$s in $vx$ respectively.



  • If $t_b=0$ or $dfract_at_bgtgamma$, for $n$ large enough, the ratio of the number of $a$s to that of $b$s in $s_n$ will be larger than $gamma$, i.e., $s_nnotin L$.

  • Otherwise, $dfract_at_bltgamma$. Since $t_b<b_p$, $dfract_at_blt dfraca_pb_p$. Hence,
    $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>dfraca_pb_p$
    Since $b_p-t_b<b_p$, $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>gamma,$
    which says that $s_0notin L$.

The above contradiction shows that $L$ cannot be context-free.




Here are two related easier exercises.



Exercise 1. Show that $L_gamma=a^lfloor i gammarfloor: iinBbb N$ is not context-free where $gamma$ is an irrational number.



Exercise 2. Show that $L_gamma=a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, i ge0, jge 0$ is context-free where $gamma$ is a rational number.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    3 hours ago














4












4








4





$begingroup$

Every variable except $gamma$ in this answer stands for a positive integer. It is well-known that given an irrational $gamma>0$, there is a sequence of rational numbers $dfraca_1b_1ltdfraca_2b_2ltdfraca_3b_3ltcdots ltgamma$ such that $dfraca_ib_i$ is nearer to $gamma$ than any other rational number smaller than $gamma$ whose denominator is less than $b_i$.




It turns out that the pumping lemma does work!



For the sake of contradiction, let $p$ be the pumping length of $L$ as a context-free language. Let $s=a^a_pb^b_p$, a word that is $L$ but "barely". Note that $|s|>b_pge p$. Consider
$s=uvwxy$, where $|vx|> 1$ and $s_n=uv^nwx^nyin L$ for all $nge0$.



Let $t_a$ and $t_b$ be the number of $a$s and $b$s in $vx$ respectively.



  • If $t_b=0$ or $dfract_at_bgtgamma$, for $n$ large enough, the ratio of the number of $a$s to that of $b$s in $s_n$ will be larger than $gamma$, i.e., $s_nnotin L$.

  • Otherwise, $dfract_at_bltgamma$. Since $t_b<b_p$, $dfract_at_blt dfraca_pb_p$. Hence,
    $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>dfraca_pb_p$
    Since $b_p-t_b<b_p$, $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>gamma,$
    which says that $s_0notin L$.

The above contradiction shows that $L$ cannot be context-free.




Here are two related easier exercises.



Exercise 1. Show that $L_gamma=a^lfloor i gammarfloor: iinBbb N$ is not context-free where $gamma$ is an irrational number.



Exercise 2. Show that $L_gamma=a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, i ge0, jge 0$ is context-free where $gamma$ is a rational number.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Every variable except $gamma$ in this answer stands for a positive integer. It is well-known that given an irrational $gamma>0$, there is a sequence of rational numbers $dfraca_1b_1ltdfraca_2b_2ltdfraca_3b_3ltcdots ltgamma$ such that $dfraca_ib_i$ is nearer to $gamma$ than any other rational number smaller than $gamma$ whose denominator is less than $b_i$.




It turns out that the pumping lemma does work!



For the sake of contradiction, let $p$ be the pumping length of $L$ as a context-free language. Let $s=a^a_pb^b_p$, a word that is $L$ but "barely". Note that $|s|>b_pge p$. Consider
$s=uvwxy$, where $|vx|> 1$ and $s_n=uv^nwx^nyin L$ for all $nge0$.



Let $t_a$ and $t_b$ be the number of $a$s and $b$s in $vx$ respectively.



  • If $t_b=0$ or $dfract_at_bgtgamma$, for $n$ large enough, the ratio of the number of $a$s to that of $b$s in $s_n$ will be larger than $gamma$, i.e., $s_nnotin L$.

  • Otherwise, $dfract_at_bltgamma$. Since $t_b<b_p$, $dfract_at_blt dfraca_pb_p$. Hence,
    $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>dfraca_pb_p$
    Since $b_p-t_b<b_p$, $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>gamma,$
    which says that $s_0notin L$.

The above contradiction shows that $L$ cannot be context-free.




Here are two related easier exercises.



Exercise 1. Show that $L_gamma=a^lfloor i gammarfloor: iinBbb N$ is not context-free where $gamma$ is an irrational number.



Exercise 2. Show that $L_gamma=a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, i ge0, jge 0$ is context-free where $gamma$ is a rational number.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 3 hours ago

























answered 4 hours ago









Apass.JackApass.Jack

13.1k1939




13.1k1939











  • $begingroup$
    The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    3 hours ago

















  • $begingroup$
    The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    3 hours ago
















$begingroup$
The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
$endgroup$
– Apass.Jack
4 hours ago





$begingroup$
The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
$endgroup$
– Apass.Jack
4 hours ago













$begingroup$
The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
3 hours ago












$begingroup$
@YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
$endgroup$
– Apass.Jack
3 hours ago





$begingroup$
@YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
$endgroup$
– Apass.Jack
3 hours ago











ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









draft saved

draft discarded


















ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














Thanks for contributing an answer to Computer Science Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid


  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fcs.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f105836%2flanguage-involving-irrational-number-is-not-a-cfl%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

名間水力發電廠 目录 沿革 設施 鄰近設施 註釋 外部連結 导航菜单23°50′10″N 120°42′41″E / 23.83611°N 120.71139°E / 23.83611; 120.7113923°50′10″N 120°42′41″E / 23.83611°N 120.71139°E / 23.83611; 120.71139計畫概要原始内容臺灣第一座BOT 模式開發的水力發電廠-名間水力電廠名間水力發電廠 水利署首件BOT案原始内容《小檔案》名間電廠 首座BOT水力發電廠原始内容名間電廠BOT - 經濟部水利署中區水資源局

Prove that NP is closed under karp reduction?Space(n) not closed under Karp reductions - what about NTime(n)?Class P is closed under rotation?Prove or disprove that $NL$ is closed under polynomial many-one reductions$mathbfNC_2$ is closed under log-space reductionOn Karp reductionwhen can I know if a class (complexity) is closed under reduction (cook/karp)Check if class $PSPACE$ is closed under polyonomially space reductionIs NPSPACE also closed under polynomial-time reduction and under log-space reduction?Prove PSPACE is closed under complement?Prove PSPACE is closed under union?

Is my guitar’s action too high? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Strings too stiff on a recently purchased acoustic guitar | Cort AD880CEIs the action of my guitar really high?Μy little finger is too weak to play guitarWith guitar, how long should I give my fingers to strengthen / callous?When playing a fret the guitar sounds mutedPlaying (Barre) chords up the guitar neckI think my guitar strings are wound too tight and I can't play barre chordsF barre chord on an SG guitarHow to find to the right strings of a barre chord by feel?High action on higher fret on my steel acoustic guitar