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How do I say “this must not happen”?
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Are there examples of passive imperative forms of non-deponent verbs in ancient literature?When can the gerund take an object?How to emphasize adjectives?Is the complement of esse in nominative or accusative when esse is a subject?Should the phrase “I often saw” use the imperfect or the aorist in Greek?Passives Without AccusativesJenney's Second Year Latin, Lesson 12, exercise E: Ut clauses and how to translate English infinitivesMisquoting Linnaeus or correcting him?Passive periphrastic with two dativesExpressing English modalities of advice in LatinHow can you tell whether prefixed ‘in-’ is the preposition ‘in’ or Indo-European ‘in-’?
I'm used to translating English auxiliary "must" with a Latin gerundive: hic necandus est "this man must be killed".
But what if I want to say "this man must not be killed"? I would read non necandus est as "it's not necessary to kill him", which is a somewhat different meaning (it's ambivalent about whether he should be killed or not).
grammar-choice gerundivum negation
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
18.8k22676
add a comment |
I'm used to translating English auxiliary "must" with a Latin gerundive: hic necandus est "this man must be killed".
But what if I want to say "this man must not be killed"? I would read non necandus est as "it's not necessary to kill him", which is a somewhat different meaning (it's ambivalent about whether he should be killed or not).
grammar-choice gerundivum negation
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
18.8k22676
1
@JoonasIlmavirta You're absolutely right, it's short! Edited.
– Draconis
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm used to translating English auxiliary "must" with a Latin gerundive: hic necandus est "this man must be killed".
But what if I want to say "this man must not be killed"? I would read non necandus est as "it's not necessary to kill him", which is a somewhat different meaning (it's ambivalent about whether he should be killed or not).
grammar-choice gerundivum negation
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
18.8k22676
I'm used to translating English auxiliary "must" with a Latin gerundive: hic necandus est "this man must be killed".
But what if I want to say "this man must not be killed"? I would read non necandus est as "it's not necessary to kill him", which is a somewhat different meaning (it's ambivalent about whether he should be killed or not).
grammar-choice gerundivum negation
grammar-choice gerundivum negation
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
18.8k22676
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
18.8k22676
edited 2 hours ago
Draconis
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
18.8k22676
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
18.8k22676
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
18.8k22676
18.8k22676
1
@JoonasIlmavirta You're absolutely right, it's short! Edited.
– Draconis
2 hours ago
add a comment |
1
@JoonasIlmavirta You're absolutely right, it's short! Edited.
– Draconis
2 hours ago
1
1
@JoonasIlmavirta You're absolutely right, it's short! Edited.
– Draconis
2 hours ago
@JoonasIlmavirta You're absolutely right, it's short! Edited.
– Draconis
2 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
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In my experience many languages confuse lack of desire and desire of the contrary.
For example, I would like to be able to say "I don't want coffee" as the negation of "I want coffee", meaning that I don't have a desire to have coffee.
To say that I am actively against drinking coffee, I would prefer to say "I want not to have coffee".
But, unfortunately, English doesn't work this way, and "I don't want coffee" is construed as "I want not to have coffee" instead of the more ambivalent reading.
Similarly, the Latin non necandus est is more literally "it is not necessary to kill him" but could also be read as "it is necessary not to kill him".
I found examples of similar constructions, but it is not easy to decide which meaning is intended in each case.
I would consider both readings valid in general.
I see a couple of ways to express "it is necessary to not kill him" without ambiguity:
- Take a new verb with the opposite meaning: servandus est
- Explain in more words: necesse est eum non necare
- Work it into the structure of a sentence: curemus ne necetur
- In some cases you might be able to use a negative order: noli(te) eum necare
(There are also passive imperatives.)
answered 2 hours ago
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.3k1271288
add a comment |
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In my experience many languages confuse lack of desire and desire of the contrary.
For example, I would like to be able to say "I don't want coffee" as the negation of "I want coffee", meaning that I don't have a desire to have coffee.
To say that I am actively against drinking coffee, I would prefer to say "I want not to have coffee".
But, unfortunately, English doesn't work this way, and "I don't want coffee" is construed as "I want not to have coffee" instead of the more ambivalent reading.
Similarly, the Latin non necandus est is more literally "it is not necessary to kill him" but could also be read as "it is necessary not to kill him".
I found examples of similar constructions, but it is not easy to decide which meaning is intended in each case.
I would consider both readings valid in general.
I see a couple of ways to express "it is necessary to not kill him" without ambiguity:
- Take a new verb with the opposite meaning: servandus est
- Explain in more words: necesse est eum non necare
- Work it into the structure of a sentence: curemus ne necetur
- In some cases you might be able to use a negative order: noli(te) eum necare
(There are also passive imperatives.)
answered 2 hours ago
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.3k1271288
add a comment |
In my experience many languages confuse lack of desire and desire of the contrary.
For example, I would like to be able to say "I don't want coffee" as the negation of "I want coffee", meaning that I don't have a desire to have coffee.
To say that I am actively against drinking coffee, I would prefer to say "I want not to have coffee".
But, unfortunately, English doesn't work this way, and "I don't want coffee" is construed as "I want not to have coffee" instead of the more ambivalent reading.
Similarly, the Latin non necandus est is more literally "it is not necessary to kill him" but could also be read as "it is necessary not to kill him".
I found examples of similar constructions, but it is not easy to decide which meaning is intended in each case.
I would consider both readings valid in general.
I see a couple of ways to express "it is necessary to not kill him" without ambiguity:
- Take a new verb with the opposite meaning: servandus est
- Explain in more words: necesse est eum non necare
- Work it into the structure of a sentence: curemus ne necetur
- In some cases you might be able to use a negative order: noli(te) eum necare
(There are also passive imperatives.)
answered 2 hours ago
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.3k1271288
add a comment |
In my experience many languages confuse lack of desire and desire of the contrary.
For example, I would like to be able to say "I don't want coffee" as the negation of "I want coffee", meaning that I don't have a desire to have coffee.
To say that I am actively against drinking coffee, I would prefer to say "I want not to have coffee".
But, unfortunately, English doesn't work this way, and "I don't want coffee" is construed as "I want not to have coffee" instead of the more ambivalent reading.
Similarly, the Latin non necandus est is more literally "it is not necessary to kill him" but could also be read as "it is necessary not to kill him".
I found examples of similar constructions, but it is not easy to decide which meaning is intended in each case.
I would consider both readings valid in general.
I see a couple of ways to express "it is necessary to not kill him" without ambiguity:
- Take a new verb with the opposite meaning: servandus est
- Explain in more words: necesse est eum non necare
- Work it into the structure of a sentence: curemus ne necetur
- In some cases you might be able to use a negative order: noli(te) eum necare
(There are also passive imperatives.)
answered 2 hours ago
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.3k1271288
In my experience many languages confuse lack of desire and desire of the contrary.
For example, I would like to be able to say "I don't want coffee" as the negation of "I want coffee", meaning that I don't have a desire to have coffee.
To say that I am actively against drinking coffee, I would prefer to say "I want not to have coffee".
But, unfortunately, English doesn't work this way, and "I don't want coffee" is construed as "I want not to have coffee" instead of the more ambivalent reading.
Similarly, the Latin non necandus est is more literally "it is not necessary to kill him" but could also be read as "it is necessary not to kill him".
I found examples of similar constructions, but it is not easy to decide which meaning is intended in each case.
I would consider both readings valid in general.
I see a couple of ways to express "it is necessary to not kill him" without ambiguity:
- Take a new verb with the opposite meaning: servandus est
- Explain in more words: necesse est eum non necare
- Work it into the structure of a sentence: curemus ne necetur
- In some cases you might be able to use a negative order: noli(te) eum necare
(There are also passive imperatives.)
answered 2 hours ago
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.3k1271288
edited 2 hours ago
answered 2 hours ago
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.3k1271288
answered 2 hours ago
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.3k1271288
answered 2 hours ago
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.3k1271288
49.3k1271288
add a comment |
add a comment |
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@JoonasIlmavirta You're absolutely right, it's short! Edited.
– Draconis
2 hours ago