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Is the Mordenkainens' Sword spell underpowered?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Channel Spell (su) and Scorching RayBreath of life and a quickened cure spellIs “Mass Aid” spell level balanced, especially when compared to other “Mass” spells?The power level of the Sword of Sharpness doesn't justify its very rare rating - am I missing something?Rebalancing Ice Claw as a 7th level spellIs the wings of flurry spell broken, when compared to other strong 4th level spells?Does the Fear spell work with an Oath of Conquest paladin's Aura of Conquest?Is my nerfed version of the Healing Spirit spell in line with the relative power level of other sources of healing?Is this homebrew Spiritual Inquiry spell, an adjustment of Speak with Dead to be lower level, balanced as a 1st-level spell?Is this Supernatural warlock patron balanced?
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The Mordenkainen's Sword spell seems to be under-powered for a 7th-level spell. It only does 3d10 damage; while admittedly it can do this damage every round for 1 minute, it still just seems to not be that much damage for a spell of its level.
Is it just me or is it not a very good spell, compared to other 7th-level spells?
dnd-5e spells balance
New contributor
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add a comment |
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The Mordenkainen's Sword spell seems to be under-powered for a 7th-level spell. It only does 3d10 damage; while admittedly it can do this damage every round for 1 minute, it still just seems to not be that much damage for a spell of its level.
Is it just me or is it not a very good spell, compared to other 7th-level spells?
dnd-5e spells balance
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The Mordenkainen's Sword spell seems to be under-powered for a 7th-level spell. It only does 3d10 damage; while admittedly it can do this damage every round for 1 minute, it still just seems to not be that much damage for a spell of its level.
Is it just me or is it not a very good spell, compared to other 7th-level spells?
dnd-5e spells balance
New contributor
$endgroup$
The Mordenkainen's Sword spell seems to be under-powered for a 7th-level spell. It only does 3d10 damage; while admittedly it can do this damage every round for 1 minute, it still just seems to not be that much damage for a spell of its level.
Is it just me or is it not a very good spell, compared to other 7th-level spells?
dnd-5e spells balance
dnd-5e spells balance
New contributor
New contributor
edited 14 mins ago
V2Blast
27.6k598168
27.6k598168
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asked 2 hours ago
Q PaulQ Paul
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Mordenkainen's Sword:
This spell can do up to 3d10 x2 damage on the first round. First you use your action to summon it, and it procs, then you can use your bonus action to move it 20 ft and attack. Then each round after than, it can make an additional attack. Maximum damage for a single casting is 33d10 (10 rounds, plus the summoning proc). It requires concentration, so consider it "Bonus" damage at the expense of your Bonus Action. Meaning you can still take your ACTION to cast other spells.
This gives you a potential Average damage of 181.5 damage over the course of the spell with a maximum of 330 damage, for a single spell slot. Making it exceedingly efficient, but very slow. If you have a basic damage cantrip, you can easily get another 1d10 damage each round (effectively giving you 4d10 potential damage starting round 2). If you have access to eldritch blast (Bard), this gives you a consistent potential 6d10 damage of FORCE damage every round for 10 rounds. Giving an average of 330 damage (Max 600) damage for the cost of 7th level slot, a concentration slot, your bonus action and using your action on a cantrip every round.
The high damage output plus the fact that it's force damage makes it a threat IF you party needs heavy damage output and can tank for you. Getting hit and loosing concentration can severely mitigate it's effectiveness. The tradeoff comes from the idea that very few things have Force resistance. The damage for a single level 7 spell slot is above average compared to similar spells of that level. Another drawback is that the spell takes 10 rounds to complete and you can't cast another concentration requiring spell. Utilizing other spells or abilities that require a bonus action will also hamper damage output. Though you can still cast other instantaneous spells (like fireball) with your regular action.
It's heavy Damage over time. The downside is that without your concentration slot you could loose out on another Buff for your other party members or DeBuff against an enemy target. And of course, each damage requires an attack roll.
In conclusion - If you need additional damage pressure against a creature with heavy resistances, this is VERY cost effective for the damage dealt. But the length of time it takes to reach max damage potential at the cost of concentration / bonus action seriously hampers your options and utility for the party while in combat.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
$endgroup$
– Q Paul
1 hour ago
3
$begingroup$
+1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
$endgroup$
– Play Patrice
14 mins ago
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Mordenkainen's Sword:
This spell can do up to 3d10 x2 damage on the first round. First you use your action to summon it, and it procs, then you can use your bonus action to move it 20 ft and attack. Then each round after than, it can make an additional attack. Maximum damage for a single casting is 33d10 (10 rounds, plus the summoning proc). It requires concentration, so consider it "Bonus" damage at the expense of your Bonus Action. Meaning you can still take your ACTION to cast other spells.
This gives you a potential Average damage of 181.5 damage over the course of the spell with a maximum of 330 damage, for a single spell slot. Making it exceedingly efficient, but very slow. If you have a basic damage cantrip, you can easily get another 1d10 damage each round (effectively giving you 4d10 potential damage starting round 2). If you have access to eldritch blast (Bard), this gives you a consistent potential 6d10 damage of FORCE damage every round for 10 rounds. Giving an average of 330 damage (Max 600) damage for the cost of 7th level slot, a concentration slot, your bonus action and using your action on a cantrip every round.
The high damage output plus the fact that it's force damage makes it a threat IF you party needs heavy damage output and can tank for you. Getting hit and loosing concentration can severely mitigate it's effectiveness. The tradeoff comes from the idea that very few things have Force resistance. The damage for a single level 7 spell slot is above average compared to similar spells of that level. Another drawback is that the spell takes 10 rounds to complete and you can't cast another concentration requiring spell. Utilizing other spells or abilities that require a bonus action will also hamper damage output. Though you can still cast other instantaneous spells (like fireball) with your regular action.
It's heavy Damage over time. The downside is that without your concentration slot you could loose out on another Buff for your other party members or DeBuff against an enemy target. And of course, each damage requires an attack roll.
In conclusion - If you need additional damage pressure against a creature with heavy resistances, this is VERY cost effective for the damage dealt. But the length of time it takes to reach max damage potential at the cost of concentration / bonus action seriously hampers your options and utility for the party while in combat.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
$endgroup$
– Q Paul
1 hour ago
3
$begingroup$
+1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
$endgroup$
– Play Patrice
14 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Mordenkainen's Sword:
This spell can do up to 3d10 x2 damage on the first round. First you use your action to summon it, and it procs, then you can use your bonus action to move it 20 ft and attack. Then each round after than, it can make an additional attack. Maximum damage for a single casting is 33d10 (10 rounds, plus the summoning proc). It requires concentration, so consider it "Bonus" damage at the expense of your Bonus Action. Meaning you can still take your ACTION to cast other spells.
This gives you a potential Average damage of 181.5 damage over the course of the spell with a maximum of 330 damage, for a single spell slot. Making it exceedingly efficient, but very slow. If you have a basic damage cantrip, you can easily get another 1d10 damage each round (effectively giving you 4d10 potential damage starting round 2). If you have access to eldritch blast (Bard), this gives you a consistent potential 6d10 damage of FORCE damage every round for 10 rounds. Giving an average of 330 damage (Max 600) damage for the cost of 7th level slot, a concentration slot, your bonus action and using your action on a cantrip every round.
The high damage output plus the fact that it's force damage makes it a threat IF you party needs heavy damage output and can tank for you. Getting hit and loosing concentration can severely mitigate it's effectiveness. The tradeoff comes from the idea that very few things have Force resistance. The damage for a single level 7 spell slot is above average compared to similar spells of that level. Another drawback is that the spell takes 10 rounds to complete and you can't cast another concentration requiring spell. Utilizing other spells or abilities that require a bonus action will also hamper damage output. Though you can still cast other instantaneous spells (like fireball) with your regular action.
It's heavy Damage over time. The downside is that without your concentration slot you could loose out on another Buff for your other party members or DeBuff against an enemy target. And of course, each damage requires an attack roll.
In conclusion - If you need additional damage pressure against a creature with heavy resistances, this is VERY cost effective for the damage dealt. But the length of time it takes to reach max damage potential at the cost of concentration / bonus action seriously hampers your options and utility for the party while in combat.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
$endgroup$
– Q Paul
1 hour ago
3
$begingroup$
+1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
$endgroup$
– Play Patrice
14 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Mordenkainen's Sword:
This spell can do up to 3d10 x2 damage on the first round. First you use your action to summon it, and it procs, then you can use your bonus action to move it 20 ft and attack. Then each round after than, it can make an additional attack. Maximum damage for a single casting is 33d10 (10 rounds, plus the summoning proc). It requires concentration, so consider it "Bonus" damage at the expense of your Bonus Action. Meaning you can still take your ACTION to cast other spells.
This gives you a potential Average damage of 181.5 damage over the course of the spell with a maximum of 330 damage, for a single spell slot. Making it exceedingly efficient, but very slow. If you have a basic damage cantrip, you can easily get another 1d10 damage each round (effectively giving you 4d10 potential damage starting round 2). If you have access to eldritch blast (Bard), this gives you a consistent potential 6d10 damage of FORCE damage every round for 10 rounds. Giving an average of 330 damage (Max 600) damage for the cost of 7th level slot, a concentration slot, your bonus action and using your action on a cantrip every round.
The high damage output plus the fact that it's force damage makes it a threat IF you party needs heavy damage output and can tank for you. Getting hit and loosing concentration can severely mitigate it's effectiveness. The tradeoff comes from the idea that very few things have Force resistance. The damage for a single level 7 spell slot is above average compared to similar spells of that level. Another drawback is that the spell takes 10 rounds to complete and you can't cast another concentration requiring spell. Utilizing other spells or abilities that require a bonus action will also hamper damage output. Though you can still cast other instantaneous spells (like fireball) with your regular action.
It's heavy Damage over time. The downside is that without your concentration slot you could loose out on another Buff for your other party members or DeBuff against an enemy target. And of course, each damage requires an attack roll.
In conclusion - If you need additional damage pressure against a creature with heavy resistances, this is VERY cost effective for the damage dealt. But the length of time it takes to reach max damage potential at the cost of concentration / bonus action seriously hampers your options and utility for the party while in combat.
$endgroup$
Mordenkainen's Sword:
This spell can do up to 3d10 x2 damage on the first round. First you use your action to summon it, and it procs, then you can use your bonus action to move it 20 ft and attack. Then each round after than, it can make an additional attack. Maximum damage for a single casting is 33d10 (10 rounds, plus the summoning proc). It requires concentration, so consider it "Bonus" damage at the expense of your Bonus Action. Meaning you can still take your ACTION to cast other spells.
This gives you a potential Average damage of 181.5 damage over the course of the spell with a maximum of 330 damage, for a single spell slot. Making it exceedingly efficient, but very slow. If you have a basic damage cantrip, you can easily get another 1d10 damage each round (effectively giving you 4d10 potential damage starting round 2). If you have access to eldritch blast (Bard), this gives you a consistent potential 6d10 damage of FORCE damage every round for 10 rounds. Giving an average of 330 damage (Max 600) damage for the cost of 7th level slot, a concentration slot, your bonus action and using your action on a cantrip every round.
The high damage output plus the fact that it's force damage makes it a threat IF you party needs heavy damage output and can tank for you. Getting hit and loosing concentration can severely mitigate it's effectiveness. The tradeoff comes from the idea that very few things have Force resistance. The damage for a single level 7 spell slot is above average compared to similar spells of that level. Another drawback is that the spell takes 10 rounds to complete and you can't cast another concentration requiring spell. Utilizing other spells or abilities that require a bonus action will also hamper damage output. Though you can still cast other instantaneous spells (like fireball) with your regular action.
It's heavy Damage over time. The downside is that without your concentration slot you could loose out on another Buff for your other party members or DeBuff against an enemy target. And of course, each damage requires an attack roll.
In conclusion - If you need additional damage pressure against a creature with heavy resistances, this is VERY cost effective for the damage dealt. But the length of time it takes to reach max damage potential at the cost of concentration / bonus action seriously hampers your options and utility for the party while in combat.
edited 20 mins ago
answered 1 hour ago
Play PatricePlay Patrice
2,512426
2,512426
1
$begingroup$
This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
$endgroup$
– Q Paul
1 hour ago
3
$begingroup$
+1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
$endgroup$
– Play Patrice
14 mins ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
$endgroup$
– Q Paul
1 hour ago
3
$begingroup$
+1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
$endgroup$
– Play Patrice
14 mins ago
1
1
$begingroup$
This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
$endgroup$
– Q Paul
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
$endgroup$
– Q Paul
1 hour ago
3
3
$begingroup$
+1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
+1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
$endgroup$
– Play Patrice
14 mins ago
$begingroup$
Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
$endgroup$
– Play Patrice
14 mins ago
add a comment |
Q Paul is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Q Paul is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Q Paul is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Q Paul is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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