Why not send Voyager 3 and 4 following up the paths taken by Voyager 1 and 2 to re-transmit signals of later as they fly away from Earth? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Why did Voyager 2's velocity drop far below escape velocity before the first gravity assist?What's the largest aperture telescope sent beyond the Earth-Moon system?How to calculate data rate of Voyager 1?What is the largest antenna deployed in space?Why does DSN sometimes uses two dishes at the same time to receive Voyager-1?Satellites around outer planets that act like amplifier to signals from voyager like objectsWhat's the largest area dish antenna sent beyond the Earth-Moon system?How does Voyager 1 send signals to Earth?How do we know that Voyager's data is correct?Can Voyager 1 receive signals from Earth?How well can Voyager 1 separate Earth signals from Solar noise these days?Why has the Earth's motion carried it out of view of Pioneer 11's antenna?Why would SpaceX limit Starman’s Tesla signal transmission to 12 hours and not use solar power?Did Voyager 1 and 2 record while not near any planets to get “ambient mechanical noise” for smoothing?Did any of Voyagers' receivers' front ends take advantage of the “cold of space” to lower noise?Satellites around outer planets that act like amplifier to signals from voyager like objects“Luckily with no Lunar Module, Tidbinbilla was able to keep tracking with no interruption…” Why is no LM significant?

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Why not send Voyager 3 and 4 following up the paths taken by Voyager 1 and 2 to re-transmit signals of later as they fly away from Earth?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Why did Voyager 2's velocity drop far below escape velocity before the first gravity assist?What's the largest aperture telescope sent beyond the Earth-Moon system?How to calculate data rate of Voyager 1?What is the largest antenna deployed in space?Why does DSN sometimes uses two dishes at the same time to receive Voyager-1?Satellites around outer planets that act like amplifier to signals from voyager like objectsWhat's the largest area dish antenna sent beyond the Earth-Moon system?How does Voyager 1 send signals to Earth?How do we know that Voyager's data is correct?Can Voyager 1 receive signals from Earth?How well can Voyager 1 separate Earth signals from Solar noise these days?Why has the Earth's motion carried it out of view of Pioneer 11's antenna?Why would SpaceX limit Starman’s Tesla signal transmission to 12 hours and not use solar power?Did Voyager 1 and 2 record while not near any planets to get “ambient mechanical noise” for smoothing?Did any of Voyagers' receivers' front ends take advantage of the “cold of space” to lower noise?Satellites around outer planets that act like amplifier to signals from voyager like objects“Luckily with no Lunar Module, Tidbinbilla was able to keep tracking with no interruption…” Why is no LM significant?










2












$begingroup$


Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 spacecrafts are on their journey out of solar system. They collected so much of important data that helped us understand our solar system. As these spacecrafts moving out of solar system they are still transmitting the information at much slower speed due to huge distance. Also the due to limitation power sources reducing the signal strength with with they can transmit the signal back to earth. It will not be long when the signals sent by these spacecrafts will be small enough that it would be difficult to differentiate from noise.



Why not send follow up spacecraft to both of these not just to act as mediator between them and earth but also to have the journey into outer reaches of solar system to gain more data.










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  • $begingroup$
    related but not duplicate: Satellites around outer planets that act like amplifier to signals from voyager like objects The reason it is not a duplicate is that this question has heliocentric orbital trajectory aspects.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    2 hours ago
















2












$begingroup$


Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 spacecrafts are on their journey out of solar system. They collected so much of important data that helped us understand our solar system. As these spacecrafts moving out of solar system they are still transmitting the information at much slower speed due to huge distance. Also the due to limitation power sources reducing the signal strength with with they can transmit the signal back to earth. It will not be long when the signals sent by these spacecrafts will be small enough that it would be difficult to differentiate from noise.



Why not send follow up spacecraft to both of these not just to act as mediator between them and earth but also to have the journey into outer reaches of solar system to gain more data.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Xinus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    related but not duplicate: Satellites around outer planets that act like amplifier to signals from voyager like objects The reason it is not a duplicate is that this question has heliocentric orbital trajectory aspects.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    2 hours ago














2












2








2





$begingroup$


Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 spacecrafts are on their journey out of solar system. They collected so much of important data that helped us understand our solar system. As these spacecrafts moving out of solar system they are still transmitting the information at much slower speed due to huge distance. Also the due to limitation power sources reducing the signal strength with with they can transmit the signal back to earth. It will not be long when the signals sent by these spacecrafts will be small enough that it would be difficult to differentiate from noise.



Why not send follow up spacecraft to both of these not just to act as mediator between them and earth but also to have the journey into outer reaches of solar system to gain more data.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Xinus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 spacecrafts are on their journey out of solar system. They collected so much of important data that helped us understand our solar system. As these spacecrafts moving out of solar system they are still transmitting the information at much slower speed due to huge distance. Also the due to limitation power sources reducing the signal strength with with they can transmit the signal back to earth. It will not be long when the signals sent by these spacecrafts will be small enough that it would be difficult to differentiate from noise.



Why not send follow up spacecraft to both of these not just to act as mediator between them and earth but also to have the journey into outer reaches of solar system to gain more data.







communication voyager radio-communication






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edited 3 hours ago









uhoh

41.2k19156519




41.2k19156519






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asked 3 hours ago









XinusXinus

1113




1113




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Xinus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






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  • $begingroup$
    related but not duplicate: Satellites around outer planets that act like amplifier to signals from voyager like objects The reason it is not a duplicate is that this question has heliocentric orbital trajectory aspects.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    2 hours ago

















  • $begingroup$
    related but not duplicate: Satellites around outer planets that act like amplifier to signals from voyager like objects The reason it is not a duplicate is that this question has heliocentric orbital trajectory aspects.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    2 hours ago
















$begingroup$
related but not duplicate: Satellites around outer planets that act like amplifier to signals from voyager like objects The reason it is not a duplicate is that this question has heliocentric orbital trajectory aspects.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago





$begingroup$
related but not duplicate: Satellites around outer planets that act like amplifier to signals from voyager like objects The reason it is not a duplicate is that this question has heliocentric orbital trajectory aspects.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago











1 Answer
1






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oldest

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2












$begingroup$

It's a great question!



Trajectory



To get a few decades more out of them, you can launch Voyagers 3 and 4 sometime around now and get by with a maximally-boosting flyby of Jupiter since you wouldn't target Saturn as well. If you had to wait for Jupiter and Saturn to line up with the original pair's trajectories again, it would be too long of a wait.



However, without Saturn, you'll eventually fall behind again, so this is a stop-gap measure.



I recommend you ask a new question if you'd like some detailed planning for spacecraft that could chase the Voyagers for communications relay purposes. There are a lot of considerations there and the question would have to be more specifically defined.



enter image description here



Source



Link Budget



Let's look at the link budget.



In order to have a useful communications link, you need to receive a signal that's at least roughly the same strength as the local thermal noise of your receiver.



You calculate the ratio of the received power to the transmitted power in decibels by adding the gain of the transmitting and receiving antennas together, then subtracting the path loss. You can read more about that in this answer to the question How to calculate data rate of Voyager 1?



In order to get a bandwidth sufficient for 160 bits per second between Voyager 1 and Earth, you need a 3.66 meter dish on Voyager (48 dBi) and a 70 meter dish on Earth (~73 dBi). Even then you get about -150 dBm (-180 dBW) signal ($1 times 10^-18$ Watts) and you need a liquid helium cooled receiver front-end to pick it up out of the noise.



You can read much more about Voyager communication with Earth in the DESCANSO Design and Performance Summary Series Article 4; Voyager Telecommunications



See also Why does DSN sometimes uses two dishes at the same time to receive Voyager-1?




If you wanted to double the range of Voyager 1 and 2 with Voyager 3 and 4, the second two would need 70 meter dishes that maintained sub-millimeter surface accuracy. This technology is certainly possible but it doesn't exist and would have to be developed.



According to answer(s) to What's the largest area dish antenna sent beyond the Earth-Moon system? the answer is only 4.6 meters (Galileo). For antennas deployed in cis-lunar space, see answers to What is the largest antenna deployed in space? show a few things larger, but these would not be suitable.



This kind of thing just isn't done, and it probably won't be, since optical communication is definitely the way to go in the near future. We've already had demonstrations from Earth to the Moon, and there are no known roadblocks to extending optical communications to deep space. Since the wavelength of light (about 1 micron) is so much smaller than the wavelengths used in deep space (centimeters, perhaps millimeters in the future) the "dish" shrinks from a huge steel monstrosity to the mirror of an optical telescope tens of centimeters in diameter. This can be managed quite nicely on a deep space probe.



For examples of similarly-sized optical telescopes that have already been in deep space, see answers to What's the largest aperture telescope sent beyond the Earth-Moon system?.



Once deep space optical communications is active, it may definitely be worth considering something like optical relay stations.




No something you'd want to put in deep space!



Here is what a "steel monstrosity" looks like. This is the 70 meter dish at the Deep Space Network's Goldstone facility, there is also one in Australia and one in Spain. The red lines mark stairs and walkways, for scale.



One in space would of course be lighter, but keeping it stiff enough to produce an accurate surface figure may still make it too heavy to launch to deep space.



enter image description here



above: Photo credit JPMajor, creative commons CC BY-NC-SA 2.0.



enter image description here



above: From commons.wikimedia.org.






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    $begingroup$

    It's a great question!



    Trajectory



    To get a few decades more out of them, you can launch Voyagers 3 and 4 sometime around now and get by with a maximally-boosting flyby of Jupiter since you wouldn't target Saturn as well. If you had to wait for Jupiter and Saturn to line up with the original pair's trajectories again, it would be too long of a wait.



    However, without Saturn, you'll eventually fall behind again, so this is a stop-gap measure.



    I recommend you ask a new question if you'd like some detailed planning for spacecraft that could chase the Voyagers for communications relay purposes. There are a lot of considerations there and the question would have to be more specifically defined.



    enter image description here



    Source



    Link Budget



    Let's look at the link budget.



    In order to have a useful communications link, you need to receive a signal that's at least roughly the same strength as the local thermal noise of your receiver.



    You calculate the ratio of the received power to the transmitted power in decibels by adding the gain of the transmitting and receiving antennas together, then subtracting the path loss. You can read more about that in this answer to the question How to calculate data rate of Voyager 1?



    In order to get a bandwidth sufficient for 160 bits per second between Voyager 1 and Earth, you need a 3.66 meter dish on Voyager (48 dBi) and a 70 meter dish on Earth (~73 dBi). Even then you get about -150 dBm (-180 dBW) signal ($1 times 10^-18$ Watts) and you need a liquid helium cooled receiver front-end to pick it up out of the noise.



    You can read much more about Voyager communication with Earth in the DESCANSO Design and Performance Summary Series Article 4; Voyager Telecommunications



    See also Why does DSN sometimes uses two dishes at the same time to receive Voyager-1?




    If you wanted to double the range of Voyager 1 and 2 with Voyager 3 and 4, the second two would need 70 meter dishes that maintained sub-millimeter surface accuracy. This technology is certainly possible but it doesn't exist and would have to be developed.



    According to answer(s) to What's the largest area dish antenna sent beyond the Earth-Moon system? the answer is only 4.6 meters (Galileo). For antennas deployed in cis-lunar space, see answers to What is the largest antenna deployed in space? show a few things larger, but these would not be suitable.



    This kind of thing just isn't done, and it probably won't be, since optical communication is definitely the way to go in the near future. We've already had demonstrations from Earth to the Moon, and there are no known roadblocks to extending optical communications to deep space. Since the wavelength of light (about 1 micron) is so much smaller than the wavelengths used in deep space (centimeters, perhaps millimeters in the future) the "dish" shrinks from a huge steel monstrosity to the mirror of an optical telescope tens of centimeters in diameter. This can be managed quite nicely on a deep space probe.



    For examples of similarly-sized optical telescopes that have already been in deep space, see answers to What's the largest aperture telescope sent beyond the Earth-Moon system?.



    Once deep space optical communications is active, it may definitely be worth considering something like optical relay stations.




    No something you'd want to put in deep space!



    Here is what a "steel monstrosity" looks like. This is the 70 meter dish at the Deep Space Network's Goldstone facility, there is also one in Australia and one in Spain. The red lines mark stairs and walkways, for scale.



    One in space would of course be lighter, but keeping it stiff enough to produce an accurate surface figure may still make it too heavy to launch to deep space.



    enter image description here



    above: Photo credit JPMajor, creative commons CC BY-NC-SA 2.0.



    enter image description here



    above: From commons.wikimedia.org.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$

















      2












      $begingroup$

      It's a great question!



      Trajectory



      To get a few decades more out of them, you can launch Voyagers 3 and 4 sometime around now and get by with a maximally-boosting flyby of Jupiter since you wouldn't target Saturn as well. If you had to wait for Jupiter and Saturn to line up with the original pair's trajectories again, it would be too long of a wait.



      However, without Saturn, you'll eventually fall behind again, so this is a stop-gap measure.



      I recommend you ask a new question if you'd like some detailed planning for spacecraft that could chase the Voyagers for communications relay purposes. There are a lot of considerations there and the question would have to be more specifically defined.



      enter image description here



      Source



      Link Budget



      Let's look at the link budget.



      In order to have a useful communications link, you need to receive a signal that's at least roughly the same strength as the local thermal noise of your receiver.



      You calculate the ratio of the received power to the transmitted power in decibels by adding the gain of the transmitting and receiving antennas together, then subtracting the path loss. You can read more about that in this answer to the question How to calculate data rate of Voyager 1?



      In order to get a bandwidth sufficient for 160 bits per second between Voyager 1 and Earth, you need a 3.66 meter dish on Voyager (48 dBi) and a 70 meter dish on Earth (~73 dBi). Even then you get about -150 dBm (-180 dBW) signal ($1 times 10^-18$ Watts) and you need a liquid helium cooled receiver front-end to pick it up out of the noise.



      You can read much more about Voyager communication with Earth in the DESCANSO Design and Performance Summary Series Article 4; Voyager Telecommunications



      See also Why does DSN sometimes uses two dishes at the same time to receive Voyager-1?




      If you wanted to double the range of Voyager 1 and 2 with Voyager 3 and 4, the second two would need 70 meter dishes that maintained sub-millimeter surface accuracy. This technology is certainly possible but it doesn't exist and would have to be developed.



      According to answer(s) to What's the largest area dish antenna sent beyond the Earth-Moon system? the answer is only 4.6 meters (Galileo). For antennas deployed in cis-lunar space, see answers to What is the largest antenna deployed in space? show a few things larger, but these would not be suitable.



      This kind of thing just isn't done, and it probably won't be, since optical communication is definitely the way to go in the near future. We've already had demonstrations from Earth to the Moon, and there are no known roadblocks to extending optical communications to deep space. Since the wavelength of light (about 1 micron) is so much smaller than the wavelengths used in deep space (centimeters, perhaps millimeters in the future) the "dish" shrinks from a huge steel monstrosity to the mirror of an optical telescope tens of centimeters in diameter. This can be managed quite nicely on a deep space probe.



      For examples of similarly-sized optical telescopes that have already been in deep space, see answers to What's the largest aperture telescope sent beyond the Earth-Moon system?.



      Once deep space optical communications is active, it may definitely be worth considering something like optical relay stations.




      No something you'd want to put in deep space!



      Here is what a "steel monstrosity" looks like. This is the 70 meter dish at the Deep Space Network's Goldstone facility, there is also one in Australia and one in Spain. The red lines mark stairs and walkways, for scale.



      One in space would of course be lighter, but keeping it stiff enough to produce an accurate surface figure may still make it too heavy to launch to deep space.



      enter image description here



      above: Photo credit JPMajor, creative commons CC BY-NC-SA 2.0.



      enter image description here



      above: From commons.wikimedia.org.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$















        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        It's a great question!



        Trajectory



        To get a few decades more out of them, you can launch Voyagers 3 and 4 sometime around now and get by with a maximally-boosting flyby of Jupiter since you wouldn't target Saturn as well. If you had to wait for Jupiter and Saturn to line up with the original pair's trajectories again, it would be too long of a wait.



        However, without Saturn, you'll eventually fall behind again, so this is a stop-gap measure.



        I recommend you ask a new question if you'd like some detailed planning for spacecraft that could chase the Voyagers for communications relay purposes. There are a lot of considerations there and the question would have to be more specifically defined.



        enter image description here



        Source



        Link Budget



        Let's look at the link budget.



        In order to have a useful communications link, you need to receive a signal that's at least roughly the same strength as the local thermal noise of your receiver.



        You calculate the ratio of the received power to the transmitted power in decibels by adding the gain of the transmitting and receiving antennas together, then subtracting the path loss. You can read more about that in this answer to the question How to calculate data rate of Voyager 1?



        In order to get a bandwidth sufficient for 160 bits per second between Voyager 1 and Earth, you need a 3.66 meter dish on Voyager (48 dBi) and a 70 meter dish on Earth (~73 dBi). Even then you get about -150 dBm (-180 dBW) signal ($1 times 10^-18$ Watts) and you need a liquid helium cooled receiver front-end to pick it up out of the noise.



        You can read much more about Voyager communication with Earth in the DESCANSO Design and Performance Summary Series Article 4; Voyager Telecommunications



        See also Why does DSN sometimes uses two dishes at the same time to receive Voyager-1?




        If you wanted to double the range of Voyager 1 and 2 with Voyager 3 and 4, the second two would need 70 meter dishes that maintained sub-millimeter surface accuracy. This technology is certainly possible but it doesn't exist and would have to be developed.



        According to answer(s) to What's the largest area dish antenna sent beyond the Earth-Moon system? the answer is only 4.6 meters (Galileo). For antennas deployed in cis-lunar space, see answers to What is the largest antenna deployed in space? show a few things larger, but these would not be suitable.



        This kind of thing just isn't done, and it probably won't be, since optical communication is definitely the way to go in the near future. We've already had demonstrations from Earth to the Moon, and there are no known roadblocks to extending optical communications to deep space. Since the wavelength of light (about 1 micron) is so much smaller than the wavelengths used in deep space (centimeters, perhaps millimeters in the future) the "dish" shrinks from a huge steel monstrosity to the mirror of an optical telescope tens of centimeters in diameter. This can be managed quite nicely on a deep space probe.



        For examples of similarly-sized optical telescopes that have already been in deep space, see answers to What's the largest aperture telescope sent beyond the Earth-Moon system?.



        Once deep space optical communications is active, it may definitely be worth considering something like optical relay stations.




        No something you'd want to put in deep space!



        Here is what a "steel monstrosity" looks like. This is the 70 meter dish at the Deep Space Network's Goldstone facility, there is also one in Australia and one in Spain. The red lines mark stairs and walkways, for scale.



        One in space would of course be lighter, but keeping it stiff enough to produce an accurate surface figure may still make it too heavy to launch to deep space.



        enter image description here



        above: Photo credit JPMajor, creative commons CC BY-NC-SA 2.0.



        enter image description here



        above: From commons.wikimedia.org.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        It's a great question!



        Trajectory



        To get a few decades more out of them, you can launch Voyagers 3 and 4 sometime around now and get by with a maximally-boosting flyby of Jupiter since you wouldn't target Saturn as well. If you had to wait for Jupiter and Saturn to line up with the original pair's trajectories again, it would be too long of a wait.



        However, without Saturn, you'll eventually fall behind again, so this is a stop-gap measure.



        I recommend you ask a new question if you'd like some detailed planning for spacecraft that could chase the Voyagers for communications relay purposes. There are a lot of considerations there and the question would have to be more specifically defined.



        enter image description here



        Source



        Link Budget



        Let's look at the link budget.



        In order to have a useful communications link, you need to receive a signal that's at least roughly the same strength as the local thermal noise of your receiver.



        You calculate the ratio of the received power to the transmitted power in decibels by adding the gain of the transmitting and receiving antennas together, then subtracting the path loss. You can read more about that in this answer to the question How to calculate data rate of Voyager 1?



        In order to get a bandwidth sufficient for 160 bits per second between Voyager 1 and Earth, you need a 3.66 meter dish on Voyager (48 dBi) and a 70 meter dish on Earth (~73 dBi). Even then you get about -150 dBm (-180 dBW) signal ($1 times 10^-18$ Watts) and you need a liquid helium cooled receiver front-end to pick it up out of the noise.



        You can read much more about Voyager communication with Earth in the DESCANSO Design and Performance Summary Series Article 4; Voyager Telecommunications



        See also Why does DSN sometimes uses two dishes at the same time to receive Voyager-1?




        If you wanted to double the range of Voyager 1 and 2 with Voyager 3 and 4, the second two would need 70 meter dishes that maintained sub-millimeter surface accuracy. This technology is certainly possible but it doesn't exist and would have to be developed.



        According to answer(s) to What's the largest area dish antenna sent beyond the Earth-Moon system? the answer is only 4.6 meters (Galileo). For antennas deployed in cis-lunar space, see answers to What is the largest antenna deployed in space? show a few things larger, but these would not be suitable.



        This kind of thing just isn't done, and it probably won't be, since optical communication is definitely the way to go in the near future. We've already had demonstrations from Earth to the Moon, and there are no known roadblocks to extending optical communications to deep space. Since the wavelength of light (about 1 micron) is so much smaller than the wavelengths used in deep space (centimeters, perhaps millimeters in the future) the "dish" shrinks from a huge steel monstrosity to the mirror of an optical telescope tens of centimeters in diameter. This can be managed quite nicely on a deep space probe.



        For examples of similarly-sized optical telescopes that have already been in deep space, see answers to What's the largest aperture telescope sent beyond the Earth-Moon system?.



        Once deep space optical communications is active, it may definitely be worth considering something like optical relay stations.




        No something you'd want to put in deep space!



        Here is what a "steel monstrosity" looks like. This is the 70 meter dish at the Deep Space Network's Goldstone facility, there is also one in Australia and one in Spain. The red lines mark stairs and walkways, for scale.



        One in space would of course be lighter, but keeping it stiff enough to produce an accurate surface figure may still make it too heavy to launch to deep space.



        enter image description here



        above: Photo credit JPMajor, creative commons CC BY-NC-SA 2.0.



        enter image description here



        above: From commons.wikimedia.org.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 1 hour ago

























        answered 3 hours ago









        uhohuhoh

        41.2k19156519




        41.2k19156519




















            Xinus is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









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