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Can I feed enough spin up electron to a black hole to affect it's angular momentum?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)
2019 Moderator Election Q&A - Question CollectionIs Angular Momentum truly fundamental?How can a particle with no size have angular momentum?Why can't I just think the spin as rotating?What is the significance of electron spin quantum number?What all has intrinsic spin?Is the conservation of angular momentum violated in electron jumps from one orbital to another?Relationship Between Magnetic Dipole Moment and Spin Angular MomentumWhat is the angular momentum of an electron? And how can it be zero?Interpretation of rotating a quantum stateOrbital angular momentum quantum numbers - subtracted?










1












$begingroup$


I was reading classical spin vs quantum field spin, I know spin in quantum mechanics is just a quantum number but what happens of I try to intentionally feed many electrons all in the same spin state into a rotating 5 solar mass blackhole, can I affect it's angular momentum eventually?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$
















    1












    $begingroup$


    I was reading classical spin vs quantum field spin, I know spin in quantum mechanics is just a quantum number but what happens of I try to intentionally feed many electrons all in the same spin state into a rotating 5 solar mass blackhole, can I affect it's angular momentum eventually?










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      I was reading classical spin vs quantum field spin, I know spin in quantum mechanics is just a quantum number but what happens of I try to intentionally feed many electrons all in the same spin state into a rotating 5 solar mass blackhole, can I affect it's angular momentum eventually?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I was reading classical spin vs quantum field spin, I know spin in quantum mechanics is just a quantum number but what happens of I try to intentionally feed many electrons all in the same spin state into a rotating 5 solar mass blackhole, can I affect it's angular momentum eventually?







      black-holes angular-momentum electrons conservation-laws quantum-spin






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited 1 hour ago









      Qmechanic

      108k122001252




      108k122001252










      asked 2 hours ago









      user6760user6760

      3,14112144




      3,14112144




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          2












          $begingroup$

          I infer that you are asking whether spin angular momentum can accumulate to a macroscopically significant amount.



          It is generally claimed that spin angular momentum does not have a classical counterpart. So maybe there is no connection with macroscopic angular momentum at all?



          About the black hole in your thought experiment: my guess is that you added that element to the picture because nothing escapes a black hole. That is, the fact that the electrons enter a black hole ensures that it is a one way trip.



          Check out this youtube video titled Einstein De Haas effect, uploaded by the University of Michigan Demo lab



          The demo shows a torsion pendulum.

          The amplitude of the swing is back and forth around a vertical axis. The amplitude of the swing increases because the swing is pumped. The current in the surrounding coil is reversed in resonance with the natural frequency of the torsion pendulum. The Einstein De Haas effect is very small, the resonance setup accumulates the effect to a significant amplitude.



          The particular metal in the setup, presumably iron, has a significant population of electrons with a spin that can be reoriented by an external magnetic field. Every time the current is reversed the direction of the magnetic field is reversed, and the alignable electrons realign. But angular momentum cannot change, so the electrons must exchange angular momentum with external mass.



          I find the Einstein De Haas effect fascinating: you get to see a quantum effect accumulate to a level where you see a physical consequence with the unaided eye.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            I'm puzzled why you say "So maybe there is no connection with macroscopic angular momentum at all?" Intrinsic angular momentum is genuine, honest-to-goodness angular momentum, and the Einstein-De Haas effect demonstrates that. Sure, spin has no classical counterpart because in a classical composite spinning body all of its angular momentum is due to the orbital angular momenta of its components. But I suppose if you had a spinning body made of a continuous substance (no atoms), then the substance at the exact axis has intrinsic spin.
            $endgroup$
            – PM 2Ring
            5 mins ago


















          1












          $begingroup$

          A single electron will already alter the angular momentum of a black hole by exactly $hbar/2$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            You mean $hbar/2$.
            $endgroup$
            – G. Smith
            27 mins ago










          • $begingroup$
            @G. Smith Indeed, thanks
            $endgroup$
            – my2cts
            20 mins ago











          Your Answer








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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes








          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          2












          $begingroup$

          I infer that you are asking whether spin angular momentum can accumulate to a macroscopically significant amount.



          It is generally claimed that spin angular momentum does not have a classical counterpart. So maybe there is no connection with macroscopic angular momentum at all?



          About the black hole in your thought experiment: my guess is that you added that element to the picture because nothing escapes a black hole. That is, the fact that the electrons enter a black hole ensures that it is a one way trip.



          Check out this youtube video titled Einstein De Haas effect, uploaded by the University of Michigan Demo lab



          The demo shows a torsion pendulum.

          The amplitude of the swing is back and forth around a vertical axis. The amplitude of the swing increases because the swing is pumped. The current in the surrounding coil is reversed in resonance with the natural frequency of the torsion pendulum. The Einstein De Haas effect is very small, the resonance setup accumulates the effect to a significant amplitude.



          The particular metal in the setup, presumably iron, has a significant population of electrons with a spin that can be reoriented by an external magnetic field. Every time the current is reversed the direction of the magnetic field is reversed, and the alignable electrons realign. But angular momentum cannot change, so the electrons must exchange angular momentum with external mass.



          I find the Einstein De Haas effect fascinating: you get to see a quantum effect accumulate to a level where you see a physical consequence with the unaided eye.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            I'm puzzled why you say "So maybe there is no connection with macroscopic angular momentum at all?" Intrinsic angular momentum is genuine, honest-to-goodness angular momentum, and the Einstein-De Haas effect demonstrates that. Sure, spin has no classical counterpart because in a classical composite spinning body all of its angular momentum is due to the orbital angular momenta of its components. But I suppose if you had a spinning body made of a continuous substance (no atoms), then the substance at the exact axis has intrinsic spin.
            $endgroup$
            – PM 2Ring
            5 mins ago















          2












          $begingroup$

          I infer that you are asking whether spin angular momentum can accumulate to a macroscopically significant amount.



          It is generally claimed that spin angular momentum does not have a classical counterpart. So maybe there is no connection with macroscopic angular momentum at all?



          About the black hole in your thought experiment: my guess is that you added that element to the picture because nothing escapes a black hole. That is, the fact that the electrons enter a black hole ensures that it is a one way trip.



          Check out this youtube video titled Einstein De Haas effect, uploaded by the University of Michigan Demo lab



          The demo shows a torsion pendulum.

          The amplitude of the swing is back and forth around a vertical axis. The amplitude of the swing increases because the swing is pumped. The current in the surrounding coil is reversed in resonance with the natural frequency of the torsion pendulum. The Einstein De Haas effect is very small, the resonance setup accumulates the effect to a significant amplitude.



          The particular metal in the setup, presumably iron, has a significant population of electrons with a spin that can be reoriented by an external magnetic field. Every time the current is reversed the direction of the magnetic field is reversed, and the alignable electrons realign. But angular momentum cannot change, so the electrons must exchange angular momentum with external mass.



          I find the Einstein De Haas effect fascinating: you get to see a quantum effect accumulate to a level where you see a physical consequence with the unaided eye.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            I'm puzzled why you say "So maybe there is no connection with macroscopic angular momentum at all?" Intrinsic angular momentum is genuine, honest-to-goodness angular momentum, and the Einstein-De Haas effect demonstrates that. Sure, spin has no classical counterpart because in a classical composite spinning body all of its angular momentum is due to the orbital angular momenta of its components. But I suppose if you had a spinning body made of a continuous substance (no atoms), then the substance at the exact axis has intrinsic spin.
            $endgroup$
            – PM 2Ring
            5 mins ago













          2












          2








          2





          $begingroup$

          I infer that you are asking whether spin angular momentum can accumulate to a macroscopically significant amount.



          It is generally claimed that spin angular momentum does not have a classical counterpart. So maybe there is no connection with macroscopic angular momentum at all?



          About the black hole in your thought experiment: my guess is that you added that element to the picture because nothing escapes a black hole. That is, the fact that the electrons enter a black hole ensures that it is a one way trip.



          Check out this youtube video titled Einstein De Haas effect, uploaded by the University of Michigan Demo lab



          The demo shows a torsion pendulum.

          The amplitude of the swing is back and forth around a vertical axis. The amplitude of the swing increases because the swing is pumped. The current in the surrounding coil is reversed in resonance with the natural frequency of the torsion pendulum. The Einstein De Haas effect is very small, the resonance setup accumulates the effect to a significant amplitude.



          The particular metal in the setup, presumably iron, has a significant population of electrons with a spin that can be reoriented by an external magnetic field. Every time the current is reversed the direction of the magnetic field is reversed, and the alignable electrons realign. But angular momentum cannot change, so the electrons must exchange angular momentum with external mass.



          I find the Einstein De Haas effect fascinating: you get to see a quantum effect accumulate to a level where you see a physical consequence with the unaided eye.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          I infer that you are asking whether spin angular momentum can accumulate to a macroscopically significant amount.



          It is generally claimed that spin angular momentum does not have a classical counterpart. So maybe there is no connection with macroscopic angular momentum at all?



          About the black hole in your thought experiment: my guess is that you added that element to the picture because nothing escapes a black hole. That is, the fact that the electrons enter a black hole ensures that it is a one way trip.



          Check out this youtube video titled Einstein De Haas effect, uploaded by the University of Michigan Demo lab



          The demo shows a torsion pendulum.

          The amplitude of the swing is back and forth around a vertical axis. The amplitude of the swing increases because the swing is pumped. The current in the surrounding coil is reversed in resonance with the natural frequency of the torsion pendulum. The Einstein De Haas effect is very small, the resonance setup accumulates the effect to a significant amplitude.



          The particular metal in the setup, presumably iron, has a significant population of electrons with a spin that can be reoriented by an external magnetic field. Every time the current is reversed the direction of the magnetic field is reversed, and the alignable electrons realign. But angular momentum cannot change, so the electrons must exchange angular momentum with external mass.



          I find the Einstein De Haas effect fascinating: you get to see a quantum effect accumulate to a level where you see a physical consequence with the unaided eye.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered 1 hour ago









          CleonisCleonis

          2,363714




          2,363714











          • $begingroup$
            I'm puzzled why you say "So maybe there is no connection with macroscopic angular momentum at all?" Intrinsic angular momentum is genuine, honest-to-goodness angular momentum, and the Einstein-De Haas effect demonstrates that. Sure, spin has no classical counterpart because in a classical composite spinning body all of its angular momentum is due to the orbital angular momenta of its components. But I suppose if you had a spinning body made of a continuous substance (no atoms), then the substance at the exact axis has intrinsic spin.
            $endgroup$
            – PM 2Ring
            5 mins ago
















          • $begingroup$
            I'm puzzled why you say "So maybe there is no connection with macroscopic angular momentum at all?" Intrinsic angular momentum is genuine, honest-to-goodness angular momentum, and the Einstein-De Haas effect demonstrates that. Sure, spin has no classical counterpart because in a classical composite spinning body all of its angular momentum is due to the orbital angular momenta of its components. But I suppose if you had a spinning body made of a continuous substance (no atoms), then the substance at the exact axis has intrinsic spin.
            $endgroup$
            – PM 2Ring
            5 mins ago















          $begingroup$
          I'm puzzled why you say "So maybe there is no connection with macroscopic angular momentum at all?" Intrinsic angular momentum is genuine, honest-to-goodness angular momentum, and the Einstein-De Haas effect demonstrates that. Sure, spin has no classical counterpart because in a classical composite spinning body all of its angular momentum is due to the orbital angular momenta of its components. But I suppose if you had a spinning body made of a continuous substance (no atoms), then the substance at the exact axis has intrinsic spin.
          $endgroup$
          – PM 2Ring
          5 mins ago




          $begingroup$
          I'm puzzled why you say "So maybe there is no connection with macroscopic angular momentum at all?" Intrinsic angular momentum is genuine, honest-to-goodness angular momentum, and the Einstein-De Haas effect demonstrates that. Sure, spin has no classical counterpart because in a classical composite spinning body all of its angular momentum is due to the orbital angular momenta of its components. But I suppose if you had a spinning body made of a continuous substance (no atoms), then the substance at the exact axis has intrinsic spin.
          $endgroup$
          – PM 2Ring
          5 mins ago











          1












          $begingroup$

          A single electron will already alter the angular momentum of a black hole by exactly $hbar/2$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            You mean $hbar/2$.
            $endgroup$
            – G. Smith
            27 mins ago










          • $begingroup$
            @G. Smith Indeed, thanks
            $endgroup$
            – my2cts
            20 mins ago















          1












          $begingroup$

          A single electron will already alter the angular momentum of a black hole by exactly $hbar/2$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            You mean $hbar/2$.
            $endgroup$
            – G. Smith
            27 mins ago










          • $begingroup$
            @G. Smith Indeed, thanks
            $endgroup$
            – my2cts
            20 mins ago













          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          A single electron will already alter the angular momentum of a black hole by exactly $hbar/2$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          A single electron will already alter the angular momentum of a black hole by exactly $hbar/2$.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited 20 mins ago

























          answered 2 hours ago









          my2ctsmy2cts

          5,9042719




          5,9042719







          • 1




            $begingroup$
            You mean $hbar/2$.
            $endgroup$
            – G. Smith
            27 mins ago










          • $begingroup$
            @G. Smith Indeed, thanks
            $endgroup$
            – my2cts
            20 mins ago












          • 1




            $begingroup$
            You mean $hbar/2$.
            $endgroup$
            – G. Smith
            27 mins ago










          • $begingroup$
            @G. Smith Indeed, thanks
            $endgroup$
            – my2cts
            20 mins ago







          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          You mean $hbar/2$.
          $endgroup$
          – G. Smith
          27 mins ago




          $begingroup$
          You mean $hbar/2$.
          $endgroup$
          – G. Smith
          27 mins ago












          $begingroup$
          @G. Smith Indeed, thanks
          $endgroup$
          – my2cts
          20 mins ago




          $begingroup$
          @G. Smith Indeed, thanks
          $endgroup$
          – my2cts
          20 mins ago

















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